WOW IT MUST HAVE TAKEN YOU ALL MORNING TO WRITE ALL OF THAT JUMPER! THANKS FOR THE INFO. NOW TAKE A BREAK!! [img]confused.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">February 05, 2004
A Vietnam Vet Against Kerry
Our posts on John Kerry have elicited many grateful and supportive responses from Vietnam War vets. We have no standing of any kind to do anything but honor Kerry for his distinguished war service. I think we differ with Kerry nowadays on the justice of the war, the honor of the American cause, the respect due the men who served and the nature of their service. To our knowledge, Kerry has never apologized for his utterly disgusting defamation of all echelons of the American military in the war.
This evening we received an interesting message on the subject of Kerry and the war. The writer has provided identifying information that allows us to authenticate his own service, although he has asked us to withhold his name and other identifying information. Our reader writes:
I've been reading your blog regularly for some months now, and appreciate it for a number of reasons. I grew up in St. Paul, on Selby Avenue (early to mid-50's), then West St. Paul. Graduated from Sibley High School in '63, and went on to the University of Minnesota ('63-'66). In May '66, I quit the U and enlisted in the infantry because I wanted to go to Vietnam.
I joined the 9th Infantry Division at Ft. Riley, KS, which had been newly activated, and which was to train as a unit, then deploy to Vietnam. I became a rifle squad leader in the 4th battalion, 47th Infantry, and we deployed to Vietnam in Jan '67. My battalion was a part of the Mobile Riverine force in the Mekong Delta. We were the first American units in the Delta, and 1967 was a year of hard fighting down there. I was very lucky. I finished my 1-year tour with the 9th Division, then extended my tour and went to the Tactical Operations Center (TOC) at II Field force HQ, which was a bit north of Saigon, at Long Binh.
I extended my tour two more times, spending 16 months there in the TOC, as an Operations NCO. My 3-year enlistment was over in May '69, and I came home to St. Paul. I had spent 28 months in Vietnam. I had earned the Combat Infantryman's Badge, Bronze Star w/"V" Device w/2 Oak Leaf Clusters, two Air Medals, a Purple Heart (for a very slight wound), an Army Commendation Medal, and the Vietnamese Cross For Gallantry (awarded quite liberally by the gov't of SVN). The Mobile Riverine Force had earned a Presidential Unit Citation for its 1967 campaigns.
I relate all of the above to establish my credentials as a critic of John F. Kerry (hereinafter referred to as "that Prick"). I know a little about how the award system worked in Vietnam. If you did something worthy of an award, it first had to be brought to the attention of your commander, who would then check with witnesses, and so on, and decide (in accordance with the governing Army regulation, AR 672-something) what the action merited.
If everything was confirmed and approved, an officer (normally the original witness) would write the citation describing the action. All of this was then forwarded to whatever command level was required by the AR to approve that particular award. A Silver Star requires something quite extraordinary in the infantry. I cannot be sure, but I don't recall ANY Silver Stars awarded in '67 to any soldier in the MRF, and that's a full year of fighting by 3 entire infantry battalions.
Now comes before us that Prick.
That Prick spent a 6-month tour on a small warship off the coast of Vietnam, which service undoubtedly required him occasionally to miss a full night's sleep in his air-conditioned cabin. This "tour" doesn't even count. He spent some time Stateside, no doubt basking in his "veteran" status among pallid ensigns, then took a deep breath and returned to Vietnam. This time, he wangled his way onto a Swift Boat, which from a grunt's point of view is pretty cushy duty. It is entirely possible that that Prick actually fired a weapon sometime between Dec '67, and Mar '68, since he has made references to dead civilians of both sexes and all ages during this period. During this same period, that Prick received 3 fragment wounds from RPG's which missed him and his boat. All 3 of these were band-aid wounds (same as mine).
In Mar '68, a lone VC fired an RPG at that Prick's boat, resulting in another miss. One of the crewmen answered this with about 50 rounds from a twin-mount 50 cal MG, wounding the VC, who jumped out of sight. That Prick beached the boat (dumb dumb dumb) where the VC had been, jumped ashore, found the wounded VC, killed him, and returned to the boat with the offending RPG launcher. For this "action," an infantry PFC wouldn't have gotten so much as a pat on the back, but that Prick ended up with a Silver Star! How could this have come about? Well, remember...the commander has to recommend the award. That Prick WAS the commander in this little incident. Do you think...? Is it possible...? That Prick was in command of 4 or 5 enlisted sailors, and chances are, none of them was much good at writing up an award recommendation, soooo...
With his Silver Star pinned on his spotless Navy whites, that Prick immediately requested reassignment under the official (or maybe unofficial) "three Purple Hearts" rule, which allowed anyone so grievously damaged to return to the US early. So ended a grueling stay of almost 4 months of combat heroism.
I have always been proud of my Vietnam service. I spent a total of 14 years as an infantry NCO, served in Germany, and a number of post here in the US. The young men I was lucky enough to lead and serve with in 1967 (almost all of them draftees) were GOLD. We who survived remain close to each other to this day.
Now, everywhere I turn, I see and hear journalists who constantly refer to that Prick's "chestful of medals," and "heroism in Vietnam." I am insulted, disgusted, deeply offended by all of this. I speak for no one but myself, but I expect that there are plenty of other Vietnam veterans who feel as I do. And I won't even get started on his shameless behavior with the VVAW, when he claimed to speak for us, and announced to the world that we were all cold-blooded war criminals.
From my point of view, John F. Kerry is a charlatan and a *****. The mere thought that he MIGHT end up in the White House is appalling, and truly frightening.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Setting Straight Kerry?s War Record
By Thomas Lipscomb
The New York Sun | March 1, 2004
Senator Kerry recently wrote a letter to President Bush complaining, ?You and your campaign have initiated a widespread attack on my service in Vietnam, my decision to speak out to end that war,? and warning, ?I will not sit back and allow my patriotism to be challenged.?
In the absence of any evidence from Mr. Kerry of an attack from the Bush campaign, Mr. Kerry seems to have originated his own doctrine of ?pre-emption.? How valid are his concerns?
No one denies Mr. Kerry?s four bemedaled months in ?Swiftboats? or his seven-months? service as an electrical officer on board the USS Gridley, during its cruises back and forth to California, or even his months as an admiral?s aide in Brooklyn, before he was able get out of the Navy six months early to run for office.
Taking a look at Mr. Kerry?s much-promoted Vietnam service, his military record was, indeed, remarkable in many ways. Last week, the former assistant secretary of defense and Fletcher School of Diplomacy professor, W. Scott Thompson, recalled a conversation with the late Admiral Elmo R. Zumwalt Jr. that clearly had a slightly different take on Mr. Kerry?s recollection of their discussions:
?[T]he fabled and distinguished chief of naval operations,Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, told me ? 30 years ago when he was still CNO ?that during his own command of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam, just prior to his anointment as CNO, young Kerry had created great problems for him and the other top brass,by killing so many non-combatant civilians and going after other non-military targets.?We had virtually to straitjacket him to keep him under control,? the admiral said. ?Bud? Zumwalt got it right when he assessed Kerry as having large ambitions ? but promised that his career in Vietnam would haunt him if he were ever on the national stage.? And this statement was made despite the fact Zumwalt had personally pinned a Silver Star on Mr. Kerry.
Mr. Kerry was assigned to Swiftboat 44 on December 1, 1968. Within 24 hours, he had his first Purple Heart. Mr. Kerry accumulated three Purple Hearts in four months with not even a day of duty lost from wounds, according to his training officer. It?s a pity one cannot read his Purple Heart medical treatment reports which have been withheld from the public. The only person preventing their release is Mr. Kerry.
By his own admission during those four months, Mr. Kerry continually kept ramming his Swiftboat onto an enemy-held shore on assorted occasions alone and with a few men, killing civilians and even a wounded enemy soldier. One can begin to appreciate Zumwalt?s problem with Mr. Kerry as commander of an unarmored craft dependent upon speed of maneuver to keep it and its crew from being shot to pieces.
Mr. Kerry now refers to those civilian deaths as ?accidents of war.?And within four days of his third Purple Heart, Mr. Kerry applied to take advantage of a technicality which allowed him to request immediate transfer to a stateside post.
Once back in the States, Mr. Kerry joined ?the struggle for our veterans,? as he called it last week in Atlanta, by joining a scruffy organization called the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. The VVAW?s executive director, Al Hubbard, supposedly a former Air Force captain wounded in Vietnam, quickly appointed Mr. Kerry to the executive committee.
Mr. Kerry participated with the VVAW at agitprop rallies such as Valley Forge and the ?Winter Soldier? guerrilla theater atrocity trials in Detroit, finally testifying in April 1971 before the Senate as an authority on the war crimes his fellow American servicemen had committed in Vietnam.
Outside of his own ?accidents of war,? there is no evidence that Mr. Kerry had then or has now the least idea what may or may not have been the realities of ground combat. However, he had no problem reeling off for the Senate a series of unproven, secondhand allegations that would have been perfectly at home at the Nuremberg trials indicting his fellow veterans.
Mr. Kerry stated there were ?war crimes committed in Southeast Asia...not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-today basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.? Then Mr. Kerry got specific:
?They had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam...we are more guilty than any other body of violations of those Geneva Conventions; in the use of free-fire zones, harassment interdiction fire, search-and-destroy missions, the bombings, the torture of prisoners, all accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam.?
In other words, My Lai was just another day in the life of the Vietnam War.
This wasn?t a one-time occasion. The VVAW had been peddling this line from the day Mr. Kerry joined them and had been publishing charges like this for the previous two years. Mr. Kerry repeated them on ?Meet the Press? with Al Hubbard, who was found to be a total fraud and who never served in Vietnam, much less was wounded. However, Mr. Kerry has never renounced the charges he made.
Recently, his fellow VVAW supporter, Jane Fonda, has tried to minimize a potentially damaging picture of him a few rows behind her at the three-day VVAW Valley Forge rally in September 1970. And many members of the press fell for the line that it was accidental or coincidental, including Fox?s Chris Wallace and ABC?s Tim Russert.
However, there were only eight or nine speakers that day, including Donald Sutherland, Mark Lane, Bella Abzug, and Ms. Fonda. And far from being a casual audience member, Mr. Kerry, an executive committee member, not Ms. Fonda, was the lead speaker.
Ms. Fonda had been funding VVAW events since before Mr. Kerry joined its executive committee. At Valley Forge, Ms. Fonda said: ?My Lai was not an isolated incident but rather a way of life for many of our military.?
Their appearance together in that picture may be a lot of things, but it was not a coincidence.
Mr. Kerry has already confessed his complicity in killing civilians as ?accidents of war.? However, he has offered a classic Nuremberg defense that this was not only a commonplace occurrence throughout the Vietnam War, but he was carrying out a policy ?with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.?
His commander of naval operations in Vietnam, who specifically designed the mission that Mr. Kerry and the other Swiftboat commanders executed, Admiral Zumwalt, clearly disagreed. An examination of the truth behind this disagreement is not an attack on Mr. Kerry. It is a matter of vital historical interest.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">WHO IS JOHN KERRY?
"John Kerry Vietnam War hero." Everyday the media tiptoes around John Kerry as if he is an icon of service to the Nation. But why is his service to the nation in war not balanced against his return to longhaired freakdom to march against his fellow veterans still in the war, including myself? I was especially incensed when my communist captors quoted him in propaganda.
I had a discussion with Senator Kerry in Bangkok Thailand. He made some surprising statements during that exchange. He stated emphatically that I should provide him with any information I had on missing Americans. This he stated he would take to Hanoi to discuss with the Communists. He didn't seem to understand the Communists knew where the POWs were and needed no help from him to "find them." Expert on war? Hardly! He then stated that no matter what I had there would be no military operation to rescue them. In other words,
Senator Kerry felt that Americans were worth talking about, but not worth fighting for. Kerry brought up his service on patrol boats in Vietnam in a very defensive way with me, "you weren't the only one in that war, I was on those patrol boats?"
My answer "surely you are not attempting to compare anything you did in that war to my contribution to that endeavor!" I did not say that to belittle the Senator, but to only give him a reality check. He said he had an important appointment.
The insinuation was it dealt with the MIAs. Then a small child came up to us and said, "my Mom said it is time to go." Kerry sheepishly moved away. "All show and no go," just another paper thin ego. I was invited to lunch by his staffer Francis.
She stated in an adoring manner that John Kerry would some day be the President of the United States.
My answer was short and succinct," Based on what?"
She said, "He's a war hero."
I said, "but he then marched in a filthy uniform and threw his medals over the White House fence." She then told me the medals were someone else's. I merely stated it showed disrespect to honors received on the battlefield by "Someone."
End of discussion on that.
Someone in the Asian customs stated a rumor that Senator Kerry purchased a tiger skin in Vietnam and officials were told to ignore it. Somehow Vietnam Veterans got the story and as far as I know, there has never been a denial from the great "environmentalist" John Kerry. But true or not it gives a good look at how Kerry operates.
Take the "war hero" the next. Take the "Champion of MIAs" one day and the "we aren't going to war for them" the next day and you have John Kerry. Senator Kerry threatened to order me before his committee unless I gave him intelligence to carry to Hanoi. My answer? "you do not have to order me before your committee, I'll be there." I waited but, when I called Francis and said I was in America and ready to put the record straight on the rumor about Ross Perot being spread by committee staff, she said." I'm sorry Mark we have run out of money to bring you here." I said; "I have miles to burn and will pay my own way." She said she would discuss it with Kerry and get back to me. I never heard from her or the "War Hero" again.
Vietnam Veterans beware. The best way to describe John Kerry's attempts to be all things to all people is, "Heinz 57."
There has been much sniping at President Bush for being a fighter pilot in the Air National Guard. Liberals who seem to believe September Eleventh was somehow our fault and most surely the President's, laugh at his flying to an aircraft carrier
to welcome home U.S. Troops. They said he looked silly dressed as a pilot. No candidate for President had more right to dress like that, than George Bush; he is a fighter pilot. Where were these people, when the draft dodging Clinton wore a "Tanker Jacket" when visiting the troops? A part of a uniform he evaded wearing in time of war. I hope Kerry does not show up to see the troops, if elected, in the ragged field
jacket and head ban, he wore in the peace marches. When time to honor a battlefield hero, I hope he does not have a "flashback" and throw our Nation's highest award over the White House fence. After all, he does think throwing other people's medals over that fence is all right.
Lastly, as Guard and Reserve Troops fight and die for our freedom, I don't want any Commander In Chief who would think their service a joke. Further, if the big time Vietnam Veteran Kerry knew a thing about the Vietnam War, other than how deep the river was, he would know Guard and Reserve Pilots regularly flew combat missions in Vietnam. I for one appreciated the support. "War Hero?" O.K., he received the Silver Star. But, "Expert" on war? No John, but those of us who are, will take the honest leadership of President Bush anytime over you. You have not changed a bit from the time of the Vietnam War. Your wet finger is still in the air checking the political winds, before making any decision or changing one already made.
We are at war and I know war. Your brand of equivocation on every issue costs lives in a war and I don't want more dead and wounded here and abroad. You went to war and then marched against it and those of us who still fought. I know you as "Springtime Patriot" and then as a "Winter Soldier." People should look up what you said during your "Winter Soldier" days You voted for the present war and now you condemn it. You may be an Ivy League graduate, but, your war record is minor league and your leadership is straight out of the "Waffle House."
If being President is going to be based on medals earned in battle, there are a whole lot of us in front of you, John Kerry. There is one last thing that places all of your fellow veterans ahead of you in the honor department, with the exception of a few of your fellow "Winter Solders." We had too much respect for our fellow warriors, who fell on the field of battle, to throw even our lowest award over the White House fence. If you keep running on the "warrior ticket," you will lose sailor! For on that ticket, you are who you have always been.......NOBODY.
Mark A. Smith - DSC Major, USA, Retired
Member, The Legion of Valor
Returned Prisoner of War<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've long thought that John Kerry's war record was phony. We talked about it when you were here. It's mainly been instinct because, as you know, nobody who claims to have seen the action he does would so shamelessly flaunt it for political gain. So I spent a couple of hours on the internet yesterday, made a bunch of notes, and I'm sending them as an attachment. In addition, look at the website http://25thaviation.org/johnkerry/id15htm. Somebody went to a lot of trouble to chronicle Kerry's checkered career.
I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.
Here are my problems and suspicions:
(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.
(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.
(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It couldn't run and it couldn't' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.
Something is fishy.
Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heroes don't sell well in Massachusetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big ! mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.
I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated. And fishy.
WOW IT MUST HAVE TAKEN YOU ALL MORNING TO WRITE ALL OF THAT JUMPER! THANKS FOR THE INFO. NOW TAKE A BREAK!! [img]confused.gif[/img]
You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you MIPS?? [img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img]
WHATS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?
I agree with you again! What is happening to me?
But I don't think you are being very nice to MIPS. After all, she doesn't know you yet. How can you be so nasty to her/him?
I swear the more I hear about this no talent ass clown, the more and more I can't believe he is going to be (already is) the democract candidate.
I swear on the cast of the Brady Bunch, I don't see what people see in this guy.
Sorry Sluggo...
I expect just a TINY bit of attention to detail. If MIPS would have read ANY of my "cut & pastes" he/she/it would clearly see that I am not the author.
Besides, I HATE all caps. Especially when one admits they're too damn lazy to press the caps lock button.
Other than that, MIPS seems okay...
BTW, my posts above are in no way an endorsement of President Bush.
I DONT THINK I LIKE YOU JUMPER SO I WILL IGNORE WHATEVER YOU SAY IN THE FUTURE. I THINK YOU ARE VULGAR, JUDGMENTAL AND BASED ON SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS POSSIBLY OFF-BALANCE MENTALLY. OTHER THAN THAT I GUESS YOU ARE OK.
why not run for president yourself jumper you seem to know so much/
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